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Passenger 2004
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2002 Dear VTwin Mama, Just a bit more background before I get to my question. Last October, my husband was involved in a bike wreck. Some idiot turned left into him. His lower left leg was severed on impact and his neck and arm were broken, not to mention the loss of a beautiful '74 Sportster. He is, today, doing well with no permanent damage from his broken neck. He wears a fake leg and has already put some 6,000 miles on his bike this year (hardcore or what?!). In the relearning process, he has dropped his bike several times, a couple times with me on it. The confidence I feel on my own bike, disappears when I get on the bike
with him. It's not that I question his skill, but his ability. I am aware
of all the miles he has logged this year but when I get on the back of his
bike, I feel very nervous. I want to show him that I believe in him, but I
can't shake the jitters. So, my question becomes, how do I regain the
level of ease that I once had as a passenger? –
Cathy Let's consider an important question. Has your husband in anyway suggested that by not riding passenger now, you are questioning his manhood/ machismo/ abilities/ etc.? Or are you taking that burden on yourself because you thought it would be a good way to show support? If it's the first, it feels like unfair pressure. If it's the second, maybe you can find another way to show your support without shattering your own nerves. Another point of interest -- have you tried riding passenger with someone else since the accident, meaning that in general you are wary of not having full control, not just behind your husband? Could be that the few dumps you experienced have jittered you anytime you're not the captain of your own ship? That would be a useful experiment to try. Last, 6000 miles is an awful lot, but those are solo miles. Anyone adding a passenger to their bike clearly alters the handling of the bike and all maneuvers associated. Perhaps take a riding course together, under the tutelage of an instructor, who can watch your body positions in tandem and more quickly spot the imbalances and make suggestions. So that's a thought. Well see what the readers have to add to these suggestions. – Mama Tuesday, August 21 Dear VTwin Mama, Once I got my own bike and started riding, I don't like
to ride with my husband at all. And I don't! (Unless I would HAVE to for
some reason, and then I would pout). For some reason now that I have
become master of my own control I get very nervous riding pillion. And
also I think my husband likes it that way. It's much more fun to ride
solo, maybe that's why he told me to get my own bike (and I thought it was
my idea!) . So like VTwin Mama says, maybe it has nothing to do with
your husband's ability but more to do with you. Maybe you just feel the
power and love of riding, explain that to your husband, and just maybe
he will think he has a "cool" wife. Anyway, good luck
in however you handle it. – Barbara Thursday, August 23 Dear VTwin Mama, I appreciate the sensitivity you are showing towards
your husband and I have faith you will work out this situation. BTW, this
weekend was my first "group" ride. Rode with five other bikes
and had a great time! Traveled through some foothills and
"curvy" roads. My only mistake was when stopped at a red light
on an incline (ugh!) and was really nervous about starting without rolling
back or dropping the bike. Well, I got started OK, but in 2nd gear! haha
Good thing my old Sporty can handle that kind of abuse! Again, to
vtwinmama, I love this site! – Sharon in Georgia Kudos on your group ride. Check the Riding Technique Archives for other articles on stopping on an upgrade. Lots of good info there. – Mama Wednesday, August 29 Dear VTwin Mama and Cathy (who has
an interesting passenger/rider challenge), Soon after this, I got my own bike and after he saw how
well I was doing on it and how much I was enjoying it, he admitted that he
preferred riding alone - no one else to worry about and more freedom to
"dance" the bike when he felt the urge. I still ride behind him
once in awhile when our son wants to ride with us on my bike (he's getting
his own soon - yea!) It isn't nearly as much fun as riding my own bike, but
I think it lets hubby know that I still trust him and that means a lot to
our 29-yr marriage. Even our friends teasing him that I got my own bike
because of the wreck doesn't bother him because he knows I'll jump on behind
him anytime. Hope this helps you and that you both have a great time
exploring the back roads of this beautiful country of ours.–
Sharon Dear
VTwin Mama, I'm from MA and we still have snow. Well, here are my dilemmas...(thanks for being there, love this site)! I am beginning my search today with a girlfriend who has a Honda Shadow. I had 2 small Hondas many years ago (15) to be exact, yes raised the child (alone I might add too). Here I am and spring is coming, I signed up for the safety course in Acton, MA next month and thought I should begin my research on what vehicle is going to suit me best. I am short, about 5'3" and medium build. I am full of excitement/anticipation as you can imagine . . . and money/etc is always an issue. Even a referral to a dealership/person would be helpful, someone that you ladies trust in my area. (I lack men support at the moment, and frankly don't care). Would love some guidance/recommendations or even a pat on the back if you get a moment. One question is bothering me so bad -- do you ride with your kids? I realize its a personal choice, but just wanted others opinions. Mine is 14 y/o about 120#. I live in Lowell, Ma, however, closer to NH border Thanks ladies, today is Spring, so happy spring ladies, and thanks for being my inspiration! – Tracey, Future Cyclist in Lowell, MA Dear
Tracey, There are currently two MA women riders posted on my Let's Ride page who you might want to contact via email, and then you could also check my Cool Links page for links to the national level women's riding groups to check for a chapter in your area. This would be a good start to finding people in your own area for advice on dealers, etc. You are the very first person to address the issue about kids riding on the back of the bike with you (!) and my suggestion is to first start by checking your state law on the subject. Here is a nice little table that should help. But I would even go one step further and contact your local DMV for the latest word. Each child is different in maturity level (no matter what age), and the fact is that ANY passenger must be mature enough to understand that they have a great impact on your ability to control a motorcycle. That means no squirming around, no twisting around the body to see something, no leaning into a curve or turn to "help" you and probably much more. There simply is no second chance when faced with a nasty situation (think idiot car that doesn't see you). Gauge the risk and definitely get a lot of riding time under your own belt before considering taking any passenger. That's my take on the issue. Sister, you've got a lot of fun ahead of you, so get out there, do your homework and enjoy the learning journey. We look forward to giving you a biker wave on the road! – Mama Monday, September 6 For Tracy who was wondering about riding with her kids as passengers: Hi there . . . good question about taking kids on bikes. For what it's worth, here's my two cents . . . I have 2 kids, a daughter who is now 6 and a son who is 8. For the longest time, the kids never got close to the bikes; the rumbling and loud noise scared them. Then, when they were about 5 and 7, they all of a sudden wanted to try riding. My SO and I took them on his bike, a Yamaha Road Star. It was perfect because I could sit pillion and one of the kids could sit between me and the driver. We took them one by one down the block, turned and came back. They loved it. But before they got too excited, we sat them down and explained a few things to them. First, we told them that every time they ride they MUST wear jeans, shoes, and a helmet. I have a few of them, one xs and one small. They didn't like that all that much, but they didn't have a choice. Second, we told them that when on the back, they can relax and enjoy the ride, but that doesn't mean they wiggle and squirm. We told them that doing something like that could make it hard for us to drive and we didn't want anyone to get hurt. We taught them the proper way to get on and off the bikes. But most of all, we taught them that being on a bike wasn't like riding on a toy electric bike, it was serious, like driving a car, and although it is great fun it's great responsibility as well. It's a year later, and the kids both love to ride. When it's nice they are always asking to take a drive. We don't drive long, maybe 20 min or so, and never freeway or above a 35-40 mph road (I'm mom, I'm paranoid, don't want to go too fast). But the thing I'm way proud of is hearing them tell their friends "my mom and stepdad ride motorcycles, we go too, but it's a lot of responsibility" in an oh-so-mature way. So to answer the question about kids on bikes . . . when they are ready, I think you'll know. I'm very proud of my kids, not cuz they ride like their mom, but because they understand that it's a fun thing that is to be taken seriously. And if they decide they want to drive when they are older, they will remember the lesson they learned and treat a bike with the respect it deserves. Good luck to Tracey, and have fun riding with your son . . . it can be awesome :) – Julie (note from Mama: insisting upon following important riding rules is a key ingredient to letting the kids join you on the ride . . . but as you note, it's important that the individual child's ability to understand the serious nature of it all must also be gauged.) Dear
VTwin Mama, The second is my boyfriend… he always patronizes me about bikes. When I say that I want to get a bike or start talking about them he gets this spark in his eye like he’s trying not to laugh at me. How can I show him I’m serious? I don’t know a lot about bikes but I’m learning, slowly but surely and this site has been so helpful and encouraging. Thank you Mama! – Debbie in Bath, England Dear
Debbie, Here's another thought on getting started with your boyfriend's support: why not sit down together and write down logical steps to how you'll achieve learning to ride?! You'll give him the chance to be your champion, use his extensive knowledge . . . but make sure the steps sound right for you as well. You absolutely need to sign up for a motorcycle course that will start you out on a small bike, give you classroom as well as riding instruction, and give you that first taste of independence. Then you'll see what's what! Don't hesitate into checking it out as classes fill quickly and you may not get a slot until much later this year. Your local community college may host a course, or check with the local dealers, or the phone book. If necessary, save up and be ready for the beginning of next year. You may even be able to sign up at the end of this season for next year. Now, about having days where you are a little scared. Only you can be totally honest in assessing what is really going on. Get yourself to a quiet spot with at least 15-30 minutes of uninterrupted time, get comfortable, and then think back on those days. Was it that particular day's ride (destination, length or ride, pending bad weather), were you already jittery the night before, did something happen on a ride that triggers the feeling when a similar ride is coming up, do you dislike your boyfriend's riding style in certain cases? Dig deep Debbie . . . and be honest with yourself. Although I'm not a trained psychologist by any means, if you don't get to the root of what's happening, it's possible you'll never shake it. Keep in mind that even experienced riders get nervous before certain rides, but it's of anticipation rather than outright fear at any level. Now, go think about it and also how you're going to achieve your dream. YOU CAN DO IT! – Mama Saturday, June 11 Dear
VTwin Mama, I have also been looking at what type of 125cc I’m going to get for my first bike. What do you think of the Honda CS? Or would you recommend something else? I really like the old style bikes like the Bandits but I’m not sure if they are 125s or if it would be too heavy for me. Though I’m not little (5’8) I’m not very strong, but working on that. Also thank you to the other readers for encouraging me! – Debbie in Bath, England Dear
Debbie, If you hop onto my Type of Bike to Ride page, you'll find links in the left side column to articles that compare the smaller 125cc and 250cc bikes. This should help you formulate some ideas on what you think you might like. And remember, the riding courses offered by various companies and dealerships start you out on those bikes . . . something you may want to consider. Investigate now because classes fill up quickly! The Suzuki Bandit is available in 250cc and 400ccc models, and the 250cc is about 324 lbs (167 kgs). You might want to hop onto Bandit Alley for a closer look, but also type in "Bandit 250 motorcycle" in a search engine for more links. – Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, I have mounted the bike on several occasions, but as soon as I'm on I feel vulnerable to the surrounding traffic and get an almighty sick feeling in my gut that I have to get straight back off. Today I spent two hours next to the bike while my boyfriend tried to coax me on. Didn't work. Now I feel like a plum. I want to get on so bad, but just cannot. Do you have any tips for how I can overcome this? I think my main problems are that so many people have given me advise on what to/not do when on the back that I'm just plain confused. Some people have advised me to use the grab rail at the back, I don't feel comfortable doing this as I'm quite small, some people have advised me to touch the tank under braking, this is impossible as I can't reach the tank. My partner says just hold on to his hips.. Can you see my confusion? I guess the other biggy is being so vulnerable to other road users and fearing that I may cause my partner to crash the bike. Please help me, I want more than anything to get on the back and go ride . . . – Carrie in Derbyshire, UK Dear
Carrie, Now, on to advice despite the fact that you've gotten a snoot full already! You mentioned the horror of traffic as one source of concern (vulnerability) and my immediate thought is this: how about if you drive your car and your boyfriend rides the bike far enough out into a "country" setting, even if it means going 60km . . . whatever it takes. An early Sunday morning would probably be the least amount of traffic time. Choose a meeting place that has a big open, flat paved area. Here, you could get on the bike together, ride around the lot for awhile undisturbed, then venture out a bit. If necessary, get in the car and preplan the whole meeting place, country road route, and reward (maybe a cute little store or restaurant you've been meaning to go to!). Preplanning is a time-honored tradition that many new solo riders use to minimize the jitters, so I'm thinking you would benefit from it as well. As a pillion rider, your main job is this: don't wiggle around on the seat, don't turn your head and shoulders that would move your entire body position, and don't lean "extra" into curves . . . just keep a nice, straight-forward profile. Talk it out with your boyfriend . . . communication is the key! While you're doodling around in the parking lot with no distractions, decide for yourself where you feel most comfortable securing yourself, whether that's hands on hips, etc. As the two of you venture out, keeping the speed down at first (talk that out as well!), double check your feelings on your hand grip. You mentioned that you are concerned that you could cause a crash. Ok, let's drill down a little deeper. It's a silly-type analogy, but you've read about people getting hurt or killed while crossing a street, yet that doesn't keep you from crossing a street, does it? That's something you've been doing for a long time, and you know that the chances of it happening to you are minimal. Now, the bike. You lost riding friends, so are you worried that something you do on the back of the bike is going to cause a crash, or are your worries more general . . . my friends died, will that happen to me and/or my boyfriend (together or him riding alone)? My best advice is to find a quiet time, take out a pen and piece of paper, and jot down every feeling that comes to mind without censorship. Every good thing, every bad thing you feel about motorcycles and riding. Get it out. Commit it to paper. Don't worry about the order in which you write it down, just let it stream out of your gut. Trust me on this, you won't believe the difference it makes. Share it with your boyfriend if you wish. In all of this, remember that not everyone is meant to ride on a bike . . . and life events shape how we perceive things . . . so even if you give it your best shot, and you can't get past the jitters, then say so and make peace with it. I know how much you want to share this with your boyfriend, but my guess is that there are other things you can do together . . . how fun it would be to find a new adventure that the two of you can learn and experience together. Now, as I know you really want to give riding your best try, go write down the baby steps you think make the most sense for you . . . hopefully I've given you some ideas to help shape the "plan." My deepest hope is that you'll soon be sending me a picture of the two of you and the bike, with a huge grin on both of your faces! No matter what happens, YOU ARE NOT ALONE in your feelings, and if I've learned anything, it's that honesty with oneself is the most important thing in life. It will carry you to the places you were meant to travel. – Mama Monday, February 13 For Carrie, a pillion rider, who is struggling with massive jitters: My heart goes out to Carrie. Way before I had jitters
about riding my bike, I had jitters about getting on the back with my
husband. I was reluctant to go with him, but I sure didn't want to be left
behind at home. He brought his first bike home in the winter, so I had
plenty of time to stew about it. I had trouble sleeping. Every time I
closed my eyes, I could see us slamming into the back of a car on the
freeway and then someone slamming into us from behind. Pretty graphic,
huh? Surely some of this stemmed from an accident that I was in when I was
16. It was a minor accident, followed by a family squabble, lots of
misplaced guilt, and a moratorium on motorcycles. I got on the back of a
bike a couple times after that, but not much. On the other hand, sometimes uncontrollable fear could
be trying to tell you something. Could it be the way your boyfriend rides
that helps perpetuate your fears? Dear VTwin Mama, My boyfriend (a VStar owner) and I have been together for 2.5 years. Our first and second date was on his motorcycle. I had a great time going to festivals and on scenic rides. Even though it was so much fun, every time I would tell people that I had gone for a ride, they would tell me how crazy I was and how the bike was a death machine. I admit going 75 MPH on the highway scared me, we also skidding on wet pavement during a ride and almost lost control and once a metal piece near his back wheel got loose and we had to buy screws at the store to keep it in place. I started to develop a fear of riding. After that I would be scared the whole time we rode, but I did it to make him happy and to spend time with him. We have talked about getting married so I asked if he would have a problem if I no longer felt comfortable riding on the back of his bike with him. Well, he has a huge problem with it and said I "deceived him" because he thought I liked to ride. I explained that I tried it for the first time with him and had no fear or bad feelings against bikes before then. He said that if I don't ride on his bike, we'll end up having separate friends and doing separate social activities and we'll drift apart. He said couples need to be on the same "path". (His ex-wife was afraid of riding too and told him he couldn't ride and even tried to get him to sell it. I would NEVER even ask him to give up his passion and joy in life - ever. I just don't want to be pressured into riding . . . and it makes me sad that our relationship comes down to this when I have so many other good qualities to offer him other than just being a passenger on their bike - I feel devalued.) I suggested maybe we could not go on the interstate at 75-80 MPH like we have in the past, but he said if the whole group goes on the highway, we have to. We can't find a compromise! He has many friends that ride w/o their SO, but he still insists I go with him. At first he said it's not worth breaking up over the bike, but now it looks like that is exactly was is happening. Should I go on the bike and try to overcome my fears - I don't want to lose the only person I've ever loved ( I am 37 and have never met anyone I care about as much as him). Sorry this is so long -just want to give you the full picture. I would really respect your advice and appreciate any insight you could give me at all! Have other couples found compromises on this? Thanks so much for listening. – Maureen : ( Dear Maureen, Yes, your S/O is between a rock and a hard place. He loves to ride, wants that to be a centerpiece of your life together, and you didn't fess up when it wasn't going well. Given his past relationship, it probably felt like a cruel blow to a life he envisioned. But what to do now. You've got an ingrained fear built up over a long time. I'm guessing since the one almost mishap some time ago you've been anticipating the next one all this time. You don't mention any other near misses, but that first one really set the tone. My suggested course of action may seem "really out there" when you first read it, but I hope that you allow it to noodle into your brain for a bit before tossing out the idea. Take a beginning riding course yourself. From an accredited association under the watchful eye of a trained instructor. I'm assuming you drive your own car and do that quite a bit and then when the two of you are out together, he drives and you're passenger. Doesn't it feel funny sometimes to be in the car as passenger when you're so used to having the control of a car in your own hands? Just a bit on some occasions? But of course over time you're fine with it, but it's still different! Now, what do you think you could learn if you took a motorcycle course? This doesn't even have to be done with the aim to ride your own bike in the long range. You could take it simply to get a "core" idea of what is behind being "one" with such a machine beastie. Think what this experience would mean to you as a bike passenger. Imagine taking a course that first reviews safety and rules and then puts you on a little 250cc bike for some beginning handling. Is it possible that by having control of the bike you would gain understanding on how a bike feels on your own and that in doing that, you may be able to gain control of your fear? Now, don't slide into the S/O teaching you. What he could do, in preparation for such a course, is to begin pointing out the controls and talk about the basic skills needed. And you could both go to a dealer just so you know how small a 250cc bike is. Now, the two of you are sharing again. Then you take the course with LEARNING in mind. Would he appreciate your attempt to overcome the obstacles? Think about that. Then talk it out honestly. Tell him you wish to plan out steps so that the fear can be overcome. If taking a course in YOUR mind is not the right course of action, then give some thought on what might be. Perhaps you would like to suggest some riding time, just the two of you, where slower speeds could be taken on perfectly nice days and he could explain more about how he views the road ahead of him, how he scans for trouble, what avoidance skills he'll use if trouble shows up so that you know what riders go through when quick action is needed. Again, this would be done with an eye to having him share his passion and knowledge with you, instead of you being just some person on the back. You are not some helpless dame here! You've had life challenges in front of you before, and now you have a new one, and an important one that involves the feelings of another person. I'm hoping my ideas have given you food for thought, if only to trigger your own set of steps toward a solution. If he flinches at any of this, square up your shoulders and scream, "I don't want to lose you. I need you to help me figure this out. You are important to me. You are not some bystander in my life. Treat my feelings with respect. Throw me a glimmer of hope. Tell me that at 37 I have met other challenges and overcome them. Back me up on my idea on how to do this. Hold me tight and love me and don't give up on me. Don't let go." If that doesn't get
him, I don't know what will. So, what do you think? Are you ready to look
this square in the eye and meet the challenge? I have a feeling you will.
–
Mama For Maureen whose fear as a passenger is clouding her relationship: I understand exactly how you feel since I had the same problem but mine was with my hubby of many years. We had an accident on his Kawi 750 which I was a passenger on. I decided "we" would not ride anymore so he sold the bike. Much to his credit he never mentioned riding again although I knew it was in his thoughts. One Valentine's Day I gave him a card with a picture of a Harley inside it and told him he could get another bike. And I would ride with him on 2 conditions - 1. That he take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class and 2. That he would be conscious of my fear every time we rode and would strive not to scare me. That same day we purchased a HD Sportster. He took the class and it turned his riding habits around 360 degrees. He also rode with extra caution with me to rebuild my confidence in his skills. Then 3 years ago my doctor suggested a new hobby to help me deal with depression from an under active thyroid under my new medicine helped. Hubby suggested learning to ride. So for my 44th birthday hubby got me an older model Honda Rebel 250 for my birthday and taught me the basics of riding. Then 2 months later for our 27th wedding anniversary he gave me the gift of attending the MSF class myself. I passed the class, got my endorsement and started riding on the highway. After 4 months he bought me a 2003 Yamaha VStar 1100 Classic for HIS birthday, which I ride now. During all this I've accomplished almost 18,000 miles. Not too bad from a girl who was terrified to ride as a passenger, huh? Sometimes the most empowering things come from our greatest fears. I agree with VTwin Mama - maybe it's time you faced the fear you have. And I guarantee you that your boyfriend will be thrilled at his "new" woman. Good luck! – Mookie (note from Mama: there is nothing like a shared experience to help another rider understand that she is not alone. Thank you for taking the time to write this and congrats on your own accomplishments!) Thursday, June 1 For Mookie who shared her passenger fears and pathway to being a solo rider: Thanks for your thoughts on this. It is so comforting to know you felt the same way, and that even though your fear was powerful, your determination to overcome it was more so. I really admire your personal strength and feel inspired by your success! Thanks again for your encouragement. – Maureen (note from Mama: knowing you are not alone is an important message at the VTwin Mama site! All of us wish you the best in whatever steps you decide to take to address the fear.) Thursday, July 6 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Kristen, If you truly want to give riding as a passenger a shot, then address your issues honestly with your husband. As an experienced rider, he will most likely welcome your proactive questions and concerns. No, you are not naive, but it's time for you to take control of the situation and become a skilled passenger if that's what you truly wish to do. To facilitate your discussions, you may wish to get a DVD like Surviving The Mean Streets, which is offered by the Ride Like a Pro company. You could watch together and then discuss from the aspect of both rider and passenger. This would give you both a chance to review possible situations, your husband can explain how he handles things, and what you can do as a passenger so that you're in tune with each other as well as the motorcycle. It truly is a partnership! It's also time for you to be completely honest at this juncture and noodle out the steps for you to be a confident pillion rider. Let it all out . . . now is NOT the time to hesitate! If this means not being a passenger, then say so. If it means small steps to gain your comfort level, then plan it out. – Mama Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Frightened Jacki, Some people can hop onto the pillion pad and go, go, go . . . but you've got some kind of pre-fear of motorcycles. The question is, what is at the core of this? Now is the time to be totally honest, not only with yourself, but if you haven't been completely upfront with your husband about your fears, you need to sit down and talk it through. As a rider with a passenger, he has many things to handle, and a fearful person on the back is not a good situation. To "mask" any portion of the fear from him is to do you both a disservice. NOW is the time to talk it out. Pretending will just give you an ulcer. One way to begin working on the fear is that the both of you treat you like the new rider that you are. Yes, you ARE a rider! Review the gear you are wearing. Even if hubby dearest is comfortable in whatever he is wearing . . . you may wish to gear up just a tad more with a lightweight summer riding jacket, jeans, boots, gloves . . . and if you're riding without a helmet because your state allows it, get one. A protected new rider gains confidence by understanding that the gear they wear makes a mental difference! I would counsel a new solo rider to begin learning the feel of a motorcycle by going to the nearest big empty parking lot (schools, churches) and slowly go through basic riding drills. I think you would benefit greatly doing the same as the pillion rider. Take the speed and the traffic out of the equation and gently ride in the parking lot or your neighborhood. Smooth starts, controlled stops, gentle weaving leans. Repeat until you KNOW you won't fall off or need to dig into his ribs but can take a lose wrap around his waist. Then, head out on an early Sunday morning when traffic is usually at its lightest and take a route YOU know well. Agree upon on the top speed he'll go (maybe 40mph). Choose a destination relatively nearby (maybe breakfast out?). Celebrate! Next, plan out adding other things (a bit more traffic, etc.) in baby steps. Build up to the full fun run that he's jazzing for. Why would hubby dearest agree to this? Because if he really
wants you to enjoy the experience he will do just about anything to help you
get there! Tell him what you need in clear, concise statements (most men
respond better to action requests) and together plan how to achieve that. YOU
need to define YOUR experience and what YOU need! Ok, off you go to noodle it
all out! YOU CAN DO IT!–
Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Karen, Bottom line . . . motorcycles, by design, expose the riders to the elements. The only protection is for the rider to be as skilled, proactive and safe as possible. Passengers should be old enough to understand that wiggling around while on the bike is strictly forbidden. They should be geared up completely, including a DOT approved helmet. I know of no strap-in children's safety seats . . . strapping someone to a motorcycle is inherently dangerous . . . we, as riders, know that sometimes one has to ditch the bike depending on the nature of the problem. Placing a child in a trailer would also not be a good idea. It sounds like a sidecar would be the best option, but again, they are not specifically designed to incorporate a safety seat. I'm hoping someone who has tried this will offer their input. Does one see riders with small children seated in front of them from time to time? Yes. Is it safe? I think the bigger issue is if you (and in this case, the parents) are willing to assume the risk factor. It's a big one. There is some previous input on taking kids on bikes, which can be found on my Ride Techniques: Passenger Riding page. You may wish to scroll through and read these. – Mama Wednesday, January 17 For Karen (Minidiva) who is exploring how to safely bring younger children on a ride: Minidiva, I have a five year old daughter that has been riding as my passenger since she was three years old . There is much to consider when taking that step but in my personal experience I would not have denied her the joy of being on the bike for anything. I agree with Mama about a little one being tethered to THE BIKE in any form is a huge risk . I solved this by using a belt system where she is belted TO ME (safe or not is hard to determine and thank God we haven't had an experience to test it). What it does solve is when she falls asleep which is inevitable with the amount of miles we do together on the bike . It keeps her tethered to me and from slipping or sliding off the bike. The belt I picked up from an army navy surplus store with a giant clasp in front that simply goes around both of us . You would not believe the grief I get when she is asleep and people don't realize she is tethered to me -- horns honking , people rolling down windows shouting at me that she is asleep and going to fall off and even though I know it is with the best of interest it does get really irksome at times. She has literally done 3 or 4 hundred mile days in this manner with no problems. She makes quite a site back there waving at vehicles and blowing kisses to all the traffic . Madison will throw her arms out with her little braids flying behind her shouting to the world that we are "FLYING ANGELS" !! Is no doubt that having children on motorcycles is risky but for us the risk is well worth the love laughter and joy we share together as mom and daughter on the motorcycle and as long as I take every possible precaution I can with helmets and top of the line safety gear for both of us, all that's left is the pure enjoyment of being on the road. Hugs, – Purpleponygal and daughter How does one transport a child safely on a motorcycle? One doesn't. A parent assuming to accept responsibility for doing something like that with their own child is one thing, but a niece or nephew??? Niece or nephew's parents need their head examined and a hospitalization insurance check-up if they allow any child of theirs under a MINIMUM of age 7 to go for a ride with Auntie. Any child cannot fully understand the consequences of an inappropriate wiggle or jiggle. I don't care if it's two blocks down to get an ice cream cone, risk knows not the difference between two blocks or twenty miles. I could go on to point out a zillion scenarios and "what if's." Dear well meaning Auntie needs to plan on four or five more years before she can be Fun-Take you-For-A-Ride Auntie. And that's talking about the four year old nephew, not the new niece. – Anonymous I can understand your wanting to include your niece/nephew as passengers when you ride, but in my opinion, children of such a young age do not belong on a motorcycle. Riding as a passenger as you well know, is also a learned skill. I don't think passengers get the credit they deserve for also being the 'brave ones' who put their trust in the driver. Not only that, it also puts more stress on the driver having to be responsible for another person other than himself. I have seen many a few children (not many) older than your own niece/nephew on the back of motorcycles squirming around, their heads bobbing with the weight of the helmets and their feet kicking and dangling -- a horror scenario waiting to happen, especially in a quick response situation. As "Mama" said, the risk is great and it really depends on how much of a risk and responsibility you are willing to take. Aside from finding suitable equipment for the bike to make it possible, I would consider the other factors which come into play.Good luck in your decision. – Tempe in NJ Although
I don’t have an “answer” – my husband and I have struggled with the
same issues. When we became parents four years ago (and #2 is on the way), we
were afraid our riding time was going to be drastically reduced (and limited
to one or the other of us, but not together – an activity we enjoy). I had a hard
time accepting that, so we bought a Ural (750cc) with a sidecar, and initially
rode with me AND son in the sidecar. Last spring my husband installed a racing
harness (like you see in stock cars) in the sidecar to keep movement to a
minimum. By then our son was old enough to understand some general rules (and
he’d been familiarized by riding with me) that we felt comfortable riding on
county roads and back roads in our somewhat rural area (although we have done
NO highway riding with him). I asked one of the local dealers last
summer about a “riding harness.” My understanding is that it hooks the
child to the driver (as opposed to hooking the child to the motorcycle). They
did confirm there was such a thing (made by Bell
Industries for $29.95), but I never followed up on that or saw one with my
own eyes. That said, I would be very hesitant to
take my son as a passenger on a cruiser until I’m SURE he won’t do
anything dangerous or fall asleep. The big question is, at what age is that?
Six? Eight? Likely it depends on the child, their maturity level, and their
exposure to/familiarity with motorcycles. (In that regard, our son may have a
leg-up!) Maybe I’ll have more insight in another four years! I know with my husband and I, we won't let our grandkids ride until they can easily and firmly touch the passenger pegs as they help to stabilize a passenger if you have to do any quick maneuver, e.g. avoiding a pothole, let alone a emergency maneuver. Make sure your state doesn't have a minimum passenger age [this is the AMA site's directory, please check specifically with your state's DMV]. And please, even if you find a sidecar that says it can safely carry a child safety seat, make sure they have the proper DOT certificates. There's nothing wrong with making the children wait until their big enough. Ride Safe, – Jen There is a child safety deal that you can strap the child to you. I believe that is is sold in the Canadian Motovan catalog. When I use to take my niece out, we did it in safe controlled older neighborhoods where the speeds are slower cus grandmas and grandpas live there. – V45 Check your state and local laws on this – it will vary from state to state – it is illegal to transport children under a certain age on motorcycles in most states (and that would include 3 wheeled trikes or sidecars). They cite the following reasons: the lack of protection equipment (specifically helmets) in small sizes, the state requirements for child safety seats (and not being able to secure those seats properly on a motorcycle) and the lack of understanding of the dangers and what is needed of the rider to help make the ride safe. – Amy in Washington (note from Mama: lots of good cautionary and practical information was shared . . . thanks to one and all.) Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Diana, I would suggest a slow, controlled ride just in the neighborhood for 15 minutes, so that you can get use to starts, stops and turns. No traffic! No fancy riding, no trying to impress you. Then, on the next venture, choose a no/low traffic day/time and pre-plan a simple route outside of the neighborhood. Perhaps one you know well to a breakfast destination not more than 10 miles away. Then continue to add little fear-factor challenges . . . a bit more mileage, a bit more traffic, a bit faster roads, etc. At all times remember that lying about your comfort level serves neither you or your hubby well . . . that doesn't mean you have to be negative . . . but be clear about what concerned you and talk about how to improve that. Some women have reported that after some initial rides, they found that taking a very basic riding course helps them understand how a motorcycle operates. In some areas the MSF offers not only their Basic RiderCourse, but an even better one for true newbies, but these are called different things . . . Pure Novice, Beginners, etc. It's something you may wish to look into! We wish you well on your new adventure . . . be true to YOURSELF and YOU will ok! – Mama Friday, March 23 For Diana who has never ridden and will be a passenger for the first time: I am a female rider who learned to ride my own bike before I was ever on the back on someone else’s. In fact, I was pretty vocal about not wanting to ever ride on the back. But when it came time to learn to ride on the freeway, I found my nerves were getting the better of me. So I enlisted the help of a male rider friend to take me for a ride on the back of his bike so I could get the feel of the speed. We started out in the driveway, worked out a series of hand signals (tap right shoulder if he was going to fast, left if I needed him to stop, left in rapid succession if I needed off immediately), as well as a route for the first trip. Being out of control was very hard for me at first but I hung on and waited it out (but let me tell you, I nearly lost it right at the beginning!). He took a couple side streets and then we stopped to check my status (still nervous but getting better). Along the
way he demonstrated a few maneuvers (weaving gently, u-turn, down shifting) so
I could get the feel and know how to react properly and safely as a passenger.
After that we bumped it up to the local expressways and then finally the
freeway. I will admit I felt a little panicky when he accelerated onto the
freeway (on his Suzuki SVS) but overall the ride was a great experience and
allowed me to advance my own riding by learning from him. Once we were on the
freeway he even shifted his torso out of the way so I could safely feel the
extent of the wind resistance at 70 mph . . . a huge help in overcoming my
concerns! I have to
admit I’ve changed my tune about riding on the back. As a newer rider there
are local rides I wouldn’t attempt solo but being on the back with a more
experienced rider is like a motorcycle classroom. I can learn the terrain and
pick up tips for handling the curves without having to worry about getting run
down by the more experienced riders. The left and right should taps are a
thing of the past, replaced by my I’m-okay-and-having-fun squeeze of his
waist and his you-are-doing-just fine pat on the leg. While it is no
substitute for miles on my own bike (either in thrill or gaining skill), I
admit I enjoy hopping on the back every now and then. I had to get used to it,
but I’m glad I did. Work out a plan, talk through your concerns ahead of time and try to relax and enjoy yourself! And if you don’t like it, don’t force it. Ride your own ride, even if that means not riding at all. – SuzyQ (note from Mama: sage advice with specific tips that are sure to help Diana . . . and I love the reinforced message that even a new solo rider has much to gain by riding pillion!) Thursday, April 5 More for Diana who has never ridden and will be a passenger for the first time: First, thanks for your website; I've been
reading through it the last couple of days while nursing a sick pet keeps me
home. I'm loving it. [you are welcome] Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
John, Children are very different at various ages and some can be quite "mature" at age 5 in terms of listening to instructions and following them. The key here is that your daughter must understand that she needs to face forward at all times and never ever twist in the seat for any reason (curiosity can be satisfied by turning one's head, but not one's body). She should also have a firm grip on your body . . . depending on her seating position relative to you, that could be the belt loops on your jeans or something on your riding jacket. By regulating where her grip is, you'll be able to feel if she is maintaining the proper grip. You'll also want to take a look at her leg reach to the passenger pegs. Children who get fidgety easily may not be good candidates to take for a ride quite yet. Sure, when they really want something, they'll promise you the moon, but it's your responsibility to determine if they can actually follow through. With all this said, plan a practice ride in an empty parking lot (have your daughter ride in a car to the safe zone). In this distraction free area (no traffic, etc.) you can do stop/starts and turns to see how she does. Remember to take frequent breaks and talk with her about how she is feeling, does she understand the rules, and anything you're feeling/noting. Perhaps plan several practice sessions so that she understands that going out on the road will be her reward and something to look forward to. Whining is a sign that the child just wants what they want . . . and that's not a good indicator. If all feels good, then do a road ride at a low traffic time . . . something short and not to trying. Build in a reward like breakfast with Dad, etc. Distances can then be lengthed. If your child is one that does well with the reward system, you might want to make a chart up and post it on the refrigerator, with each step, a column for the date achieved and a column for a gold star. It's just a thought! She might also enjoy those stickers that kids like so much . . . maybe one her helmet for each ride . . . she can choose which one to add! At all junctures, calm instructions rather than yelling is important. If something isn't going right, pull over as quickly as possible and return to the learning lesson by reviewing the important points. You'll know if it's sinking in or too boring to follow! – Mama Tuesday, May 8 For John who wants to take his 5-year-old daughter on the motorcycle: Do check with your DMV. Some may have age requirements for passengers on motorcycles. – Jem (note from Mama: thanks . . . forget that one!) Some suggestions for John: Buddy Belt, I think by G&G; Pillion Pal; CRV has child's riding belt. Try familymotorcycling.com and babybiker.com. Friends have used this method and recommend it. My brother and I started his triplet grandchildren as passengers at age 5, just around the neighborhood at very slow speeds. No belts, they just learned to hold onto belt loops. Last year my brother bought a Ultra Classic, a little more confined for passengers with the backrest arms and luggage rack on tour pack. So at age 7 they got to go out onto the road with real traffic. We are talking 3 different kids here the same age, but very different attention spans. All have done well, it was a struggle for one to learn that just because I slowed down did not mean he could let go. Of course this is the child that is waving to every kid he sees when he is on Grandpa's Ultra Classic! If John's daughter is asking to ride I believe that she will be a great passenger. That hunger to be riding with Dad is a bond that is hard to break. Start making those memories now!!! – Anon (note from Mama: how wonderful to see sites that specifically address riding with children . . . thank you so much for sharing these! You've added some other notes that I'm sure will help John determine how he would like to proceed!) Dear VTwin Mama, Our next ride was on, what I thought to be, a normal day. We were on a group ride, on roads that I was quite familiar with; however, what did not ease my mind was the extreme wind that we were experiencing. Upon getting on the highway, we were riding at 75 mph, and the wind was gusting at our sides up to 20 mph... I could feel the bike swaying, and I lost all mental stability. I began to hyperventilate, and as soon as we stopped, I lost it - crying and all. While I could have had my mother (that's right, I was going to call my mom) come get me, but I knew that it was important to ride home with him. At this point in time, I'm so scared of the wind. I've been on it three times since then (and it's 2 1/2 months), and I can't seem to get my mind off of it. Just this morning, we went about 3 miles, and I felt the (non-existent) wind blowing into us. Do you have any suggestions as to how to shake this fear? We have discussed how he has to handle things differently with me, how I need to "become one" with him to avoid moving the bike, and how he has to compensate for the wind gusts, but my overactive mind won't stop obsessing about wind!! I also have a fear of turbulence on planes, but ever since I heard a stat about plane crashes and turbulence, my fear as been strictly on take off (which makes long flights much less painful)! Thanks for any insight. – Melissa Dear Melissa, I'm also wondering if adding a windshield will help you. This reduces the force of wind coming in at you from the front. It won't negate any side wind feeling, but still may be something to consider. If neither of you is sure, perhaps one of the members of the riding group has a bike with a windshield . . . you could go for a planned ride as pillion with them to see the difference! I would also counsel that you review your riding gear . . . are you fully protected with a good jacket, helmet, long pants, boots, gloves and eyewear? I always feel more at ease on high speed highways (here in Mobile they travel at 85mph on I10 as the norm!) with full gear. It's a mental thing! Loose flapping gear adds to wind fear . . . it makes everything seem worse . . . so review this! I'm hoping these ideas show you some pathways that will make your experience more comfortable and confidence building. Let me know how's it going! – Mama Wednesday, June 13 For Melissa who is riding pillion and high winds are creating huge concerns: You had a couple of good rides to start with --
unlike me – I got to start with a couple of bad ones! The wind was
an issue with me as well; after 2 ½ years of riding my own, though, I
have learned some things. One of the main things is to be one with
the bike – not the driver! Get that backrest for additional
support and stability & lean against it rather than him. Every
motion he makes is going to make your adrenaline flow and you react –
sometimes too much. With your back against the ‘sissy bar’ YOU
will feel more secure and you need that. I felt even more secure
once I started riding my own; being able to hold the grips & control
my own speed & movement increased my confidence level immensely.
But, I digress – when you ride with him and your
back is firmly against a backrest the bike will move you and it will feel
much more natural – you will lean with it as it goes into turns
(remember to just look over his shoulder in the direction of travel –
YOU don’t lean, you just lean with the bike while it turns) and when it
is affected by crosswinds & turbulence you will have that additional
support. Remember even a windshield will have turbulence over and
around it. A loose helmet was one of my problems; it was a size
too large and made the wind seem even worse. Once I got a helmet
sized correctly to my head there wasn’t nearly as much of that old
motion on my head from the wind, so there is probably a good deal to what
Mama said about getting the correct riding clothes. The least amount
of wind that gets under your clothes & helmet the better. Stick
with it – it took me over a year of riding with my ex before it began to
feel comfortable, but inside of 3 months after getting comfortable, I
wanted one of my own! Thursday, June 14 More for Melissa who is riding pillion and high winds are creating huge concerns: Riding as a passenger is something I have some experience with. I would definitely say to arrange to add a backrest. It may not seem like much, but it really makes a different feel to the ride. My husband and I went out recently on a friend's bike that did not have a backrest, and while I normally love the ride, I was nervous and sliding a lot from side to side. The backrest, even when I don't lean on it, centers me, and helps me feel stable. Also, a proper fitting helmet, and maybe even some ear plugs would be helpful. You don't want to eliminate all noise, just reduce the decibel level a bit. If you think you may ride a lot, maybe a intercom system so you can communicate better so you are aware of what is about to happen until you get a bit more comfortable, or even work out a system, maybe like leg pats. Also, don't be afraid to tell your rider if you aren't having a good time. I find that sometimes my hubby is having such a good time, while he doesn't completely forget about me, he forgets my seat isn't as comfy and I don't get the same ride he does. – Nanette in New York (note from Mama: that's just a great and solid idea about developing a communication system, either by body signals or an actual helmet comm . . . thanks for sharing that! And you're so right, while we want to treat each rider equally, the pillion doesn't have the same experience and that should be taken into account.) Wednesday, June 20 From Melissa who is dealing with challenges as a pillion rider: I appreciate all the responses! I suppose that I left out some important features -- he added a large sissy bar (one that the parts guy didn't think could fit on his bike) and a larger seat. I think I'm going to try the earplugs (I tried music once as a distracter -- no such luck) because I know that I notice a difference in the sound once we leave city limits. I'm also interested in signing up for a riders' safety course in hopes of putting my logical mind to rest. I find that I also have more confidence in a group with several passengers, as seeing that they can do it makes me think "well, I surely can, too." I wear properly fitting helmet, jeans, riding jacket (although, I might zip up those vents), and gloves. Thanks again! – Melissa (note from Mama: good, the input gave you a chance to review what you do have and where you will look next for solutions to your riding comfort! Any number of passengers do take a course and sometimes just so they have a better feel for things rather than in preparation for riding solo . . . do your thing sister!) Greetings Petra, My situation is in reverse of sorts. I started out riding my own bike and have logged many, many miles on my Kawasaki Vulcan 900LT, DixieLee. I even just recently accomplished one of my long term goals and did my first weekender with my hubby and friend to Cherokee, NC via the famous "dragon" and on up in to Maggie Valley. Some curvy roads to be sure and I did wonderful. I am so jazzed for myself. But here's the situation. My husband rides a Kawasaki 1600 Nomad, super bike with an absolutely awesome passenger seat. He is about 5'9" and weighs approx 175lbs maybe. I am a 5'4" plus size lady and weigh approx 200lbs. While we were in NC, of course if you go anywhere, you ride, but my girlfriend who rode her own there decided she was tired when it came time to go out and eat so she jumped on the back of her boyfriends bike and told me to do the same with my husband. Now, she is no small thing herself and her boyfriend, while taller than my husband, is a little bitty thing too. I have never ridden on the back as a passenger with my husband in the 13 years we've been married. Not that he hasn't wanted me to, it's just I don't think he can hold that huge bike and me up at the same time. I know how to ride as a passenger, I've just never done it with him. He says he doesn't see a problem with it, but I do see and feel hesitation from him as well. I would love to try it but have a fear that I'm just too heavy for him to handle all that and would cause us to go down. Is there anybody else out there who has gone through a similar situation or has advise? It would have been great to have jumped on the back of his bike with him and felt comfortable when we were on our trip, but I tell ya, I had not even thought about it until then. I just love riding my own too much, but for the occasional situation that could arise I would like to think we could do it. I know it's huge trust issue with me too. Can he can handle it? I see couples riding two up all the time. Little men riding plus size ladies and never see a problem. Why do you think? Thanks, – LuckyLady in TN Dear
LuckyLady, There is no doubt that the sizes/weights of the rider and passenger do affect handling of a motorcycle and should always be considered carefully. A lot has to do with the arm and leg strength of the rider, and of course, a passenger who knows what to do and what not to do! I'm soooo glad you didn't just willy-nilly do this during your weekend run! Given that both of you don't want to shut down the possibility of 2-up riding, I would suggest that you ride both your motorcycles to a big empty parking lot and give it a whirl. Make sure you're both properly dressed and keep it simple to begin with, so that you can start the trust process. Nice straight runs and big lazy loops. Take breaks every 15 minutes and talk it out. How is it feeling to him? What are you noticing? And then reverse the position, with you riding and hubby dearest as passenger! Now, why would I advocate such skill building? Mainly because if one motorcycle breaks down on a longer trip, you're both in position to be 2-up. What if something happens and he can't operate his own motorcycle? Wouldn't it be nice to begin building those skills and each be in position to handle a situation?!?!?! Why, yes it would! With just that beginning practice, you can then decide on passenger riding practice on light traffic days for more speed and curves. Don't overdo it! Stop frequently and communicate. If both of you are honest, the best realities will be realized. It's useful to have a hand signal to indicate when one or the other wants to pull over at the earliest convenience (just in case their is a mental overload of some kind). Now, off you go to present this idea and make plans. I think you'll both be happy that you at least give it a try, keeping it honest and non-judgmental. You're a team! – Mama Monday, August 6 For LuckyLady who rides solo but wondering if pillion with hubby should be learned: Hey – a situation I can actually give an “apples to apples” comparison answer to! My ex-husband weighed in at 320 when I first started riding with him & I was a very hefty 210. His Vulcan Classic (same bike as the Nomad without the hard bags) had a carrying weight of 570 or 580 pounds (if I remember that tidbit of information correctly – very close to what we & the packed hardbags weighed together) and it still did fine. And he did fine. There isn’t any additional upper body strength necessary, really; particularly while moving – at slow speeds the additional weight is more easily felt, but not enough to cause fear of tipping over or loss of balance. I’ve taken my son with me on my Valkyrie a couple of times and can notice a weight difference, but it doesn’t change the handling much at all. If the bike does start to tip at a stop or very slow speed, you, as a passenger, could put your foot down then to help support it – I did that once when the bike slid on gravel while coming to a stop at a corner and probably saved us an oopsie then. You certainly don’t want to put your feet down at all while moving at any time, though. I have to admit that I kind of miss
riding on the back at times; you get to see what’s going on around you
during the ride so much better. I envy your ride of Deal’s Gap
(otherwise known as the Dragon) – I am looking forward to a trip through
there if I ever get that far back east! Thursday, August 30 Dear VTwin Mama, OK, my story. Way back in the day I used to ride dirt bikes. A few years back, prior to the back injury, I raced mountain bikes. I am now going on a date with a 35 year HD riding veteran and I am nervous about being a passenger again. I know the lean and follow the leader is were it's at, but I have been out of many loops in the past 22 years (just left my cheating husband years ago) and this will be my first date as well as my first date with his HD. Sisters, help!!! Just some pointers to refresh my memory. I used to be able to fall asleep as a passenger 25 years ago, but I guess I was domesticated. :-( Got my wild back on and looking forward to meeting up with Gypsy. I just want to impress and not cause a problem. Have my own rusty helmet and boots, so that's a plussss. – Lucy Dear
Lucy, I thought I had just recently addressed the same question from another reader, but in checking my notes, I see that I provided a personal response (rather than one posted in the main column). So here is what I said: I don't know one rider who doesn't like to talk about their bikes, so, when you meet up, you can break the ice and tell him you would LOVE a mini tour of the bike, pointing out basic things, any modifications that he made, etc. If he says that would be boring, tell him that's not possible, even if you don't understand everything, it would be nice to learn a little bit about this EXACT bike. Then asked specifically about the passenger setup, which will be the seat, the footpegs and maybe a backrest and possibly a grab strap. Then I'd simply say, "it's been awhile since I've been a passenger . . . let's go over the basics, ok?" You can lead the discussion if you want as this is IMPORTANT TO YOU, not just to him! 1) does he have a preferred method for you to get on? Ask and he'll let you know. 2) Let him know you understand not to shift in your seat, make any radical moves, you can look around with your head but not your whole body, and not to "help" him lean in turns or curves (stay centered on his back and it will naturally flow). Tell him you think the best place to put your hands are at the side of his waist for your comfort and safety (that allows him to also more clearly judge where you are at). What does he think? 3) tell him you would like a signal between the two of you (other than shouting!) to indicate that you want him to pull over at the next convenient place. Just in case! Sometimes newly reborn passenger riders need more frequent breaks than the rider, so don't be shy about this. Ok, that's the basics. In all of this, remember, you don't need to apologize for anything you ask. Be firm but fun! If he's any kind of gentleman he'll gladly address any questions you have before taking off or during the ride. Now I'm going to add that the point isn't to look cool or impress. The point is that the two of you have a great ride. Only the insane think that the "cool factor" is more important than the "safety factor." Don't make that mistake. By asking and reviewing you'll find that this veteran rider is going to be glad he's with someone who takes riding and riding safety seriously! That's how he got so many years under his belt! – Mama |
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